Live from CSI 2025 — Building Connections, Sharing RFI Horror Stories, and a Surprise Musical Performance

We're rocking from Cleveland, Ohio, and this is CSI 2025. Let's get into it. Welcome to What the RFI, I'm Matt Brennan and this is the podcast all about CA. But today is a little bit different because I'm joined with Holly and Dean. Dean, why don't you introduce yourself and kick it off. Well, Dean Moylan. I'm here representing Noble Company. I have been with the company for 27 years. I am the red-haired stepchild who lives in Las Vegas, Nevada. Everyone else in the company? Well, most of the company lives back in Spring Lake, Michigan. But I'm out on the West Coast. yeah, the CSI event is always a fantastic event. And we do primarily Division IX waterproofing, which means there's tile. stone, water, and a drain. So think of shower pans, back of the house food prep, health clubs, hospital facilities, um wherever there might be exterior decks, great company to work for, uh owned and operated solely here in the USA. Nice. So yeah, it's always a real, think it's a privilege and honor to be at these CSI events. uh 100%. Molly, tell us about it. so I'm Holly Gotfordsen. I'm the owner and president of Finishing Dynamics and American Metal Craft. We do mainly division seven, but also five and ten and do rain screen systems, perforated panels, ornamental metal, brake metal, column covers and all types of custom exterior fabrications. It's a lot of fun. I've been in the business for a little over two decades and started with CSI in 2018. and have really just come to love the organization as a whole. I really enjoy the events that CSI provides and have been, it's been an honor and so much fun to be part of the local chapter as well as the region. And of course, here we are nationals. And Nationals, yeah. I guess with you keep coming back and I asked this question to the other show that I did and everything. What brings you back? What is that one thing that lights your fire? You've been coming here for a long it's reconnecting with people. I have made so many great friends and you know, my first trip around the sun, as it were, when I first went to the national conference, I was a little nervous. I knew people from my region and from my chapter, but I didn't know a lot of people here. And everyone was so welcoming and so kind. And so it's almost like old home week now, you know, I get to go and... reconnect with all my friends and then make new connections. So it's really been great and that's really why I come back every year. Awesome. Very cool. So from what you, any highlights right now from the conference particular? Well, think we're starting, I'm starting to see a little more optimism, a more positivity. think, you know, with the new president and the new government leadership, I think people are waiting to see what's going to pan out. And it seems like a lot of money was on the sidelines for developing these new projects. People have got to build them because the cost of construction is only going to get more expensive. So I see people getting off the fence and living in Las Vegas, we're starting to see some Really exciting projects come out of the ground. Oh, very cool. And like, we won't get into the politics side of it or anything. You already introduced it, of course. But are you fine, like, because again, I'm on the other side of the border. So like, we saw the steel tariffs before and how it impacted us. We didn't quite know. Now we're kind of, you know, round two, we kind of got to see kind of people built in their contracts. that did tariffs come in, they automatically got with a difference. So it didn't really affect the project or the sub trades. Are you with all the tariffs being applied? you finding the projects getting stalled because of that? Or you're saying that we're kind of past that point now where we have optimism to move forward? Holly, what have you seen down here? mean, I'm in out west, you're out in the southeast. So, I mean, what's going on out there? I mean, I think there's been uh optimism around it for the most part. mean, you've got people in a variety of camps. You know, we dealt with the metal tariffs in 2017, 2018 timeframe when those first got introduced. And what we saw was domestic production coming back online. And so we've had several years for that to slowly increase. And so I think this round two, we're a little bit more prepared for it. And we have more domestic production. em And I think that's just going to continue to grow. And I think that's really going to benefit everybody in the industry within the country. Yeah, for sure. 100%. And, know, personal highlights from so far with your, know, Dean's kind of, you've mentioned yours, but what do you see in Canada, you know, I really enjoyed the session this morning about collaborative AI. SpecLink presented that and I thought that was really interesting. It was kind of a different perspective with the use of AI. also we really enjoyed the RCAP presentation. a little bit, diving a little bit deeper into marketing and sales and some of the things that may look good on the surface that product reps and building product owner manufacturers do and the things that they can do a little bit differently and a little bit better. that's so cool. And industry trends, you know, not just about kind of optimism and all that, but like diving into specifications, right? And we can definitely probably talk about RFI horror stories, you know, the podcast is about CA and hearing those, but what do you, guess, kind of listeners that do listen that they're always trying to practice and be better with their drawings or specifications, any kind of bold advice? that you would, you know, from examples, real life examples that you have faced from, you know, both division seven and division nine and everything, you know, you can open up, there's lot of ways. There is a, I think you may have the mother of all RFI horror stories. It took place in Las Vegas, ah four star, uh multi-thousand room casino hotel. And they decided at the 11th hour, they were gonna change the waterproofing. So they had it all designed, had it all ready, ready to go. Fed out. And then the change. And of course, you know, things happen in construction, people will propose alternate, sometimes less expensive methods. But this one they kept under the rug, and they replaced a highly effective and high performing CPE sheet membrane system with a very inexpensive liquid membrane system. Now, there's nothing wrong with liquid membrane systems if they're put in correctly. But You need to let, when this whole problem came to light, facility manager still thought the sheet membrane was what was on the project. No one had ever told anyone they were making this. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, here's our ultimate proposal, whatever you need to get that done. They didn't do that. And so this ended up being a multi-million dollar rip and repair. in the wet areas had to torn out. Sad, really. it is sad because like, again, when you're, you're, doing the first time once, like again, I've been in a scenario where we had to pull drywall because they didn't install the right backing board or something like that. And it's, sucks. Thankfully at the end of the day that was covered by title, but when I've had, they've installed something and then they realize, shoot, the pipes, they installed the wrong height and then they have to go back and rework it. Well, we're the area that kind of go back and that draw that magic line. Now there's a control drawing towards just, it's not the same, right? And it sucks. Cause you're like, we had this coordinated. We had this plan. We made an executive decision. It was the right decision. And then someone decides to make a change. And Las Vegas, the whole concept of fast track construction. uh literally people were operating under premises like, OK, we think we're going to do this. We think we're going do that, but we're in a hurry. go ahead and start. Well, we literally had like stairways going to nowhere. oh People who were building this part of the project didn't know the other people were doing that. so that whole fast track design concept is of bit the dust because there were some pretty expensive backlashes. Yeah, no, 100%. That's unfortunate. Like, holy, any horror stories without naming names, getting yourself... Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it was a horror story. It was more just frustrating than anything else. We were basis of design. We were selected. We got all the phone calls, provided bids. The installer we went with got awarded the project. We were good to go. We got a purchase order and then the architect decided and realized that what they had specified didn't match the rest of the renovations, which was what we were supposed to be providing. And so they wound up going with a completely different metal and a completely different panel because they didn't realize that until after the fact. So it was disappointing to say the least. So did you like in that particular moment, like did you guys get involved like that call like, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm the architect. I'm going to change this whole, just FYR. it just too late when it came in? Well, it was really too late when they realized it. mean, we had already kind of, we had done quite a bit of work and had already started looking at, you know, shops and all of that. And then we understood from our customer that they were going to have an emergency meeting because something had come up and out of that meeting was basically we specified the wrong panel to match the rest of the existing campus. you know, it was disappointing, but things happen. things happen and I kind of between the two, I think I've talked about before, like communication is so key, right? And in the simple acts of picking up the phone and saying, I'm thinking about something, I'm not making any drastic changes right now, but I'm just thinking about something. And we've talked on the show, we've talked with others and it's like trusting your reps. Like serious, you know, in that respect because you live and breathe. everything about the metal panels, know, waterproof membrane, everything, you know, way beyond that. that's your specialty. sublime to the ridiculous, yes. And, you know, I guess any, any advice or input on that? Well, I think, you know, with the advent of smartphones, know, AI technology, way we can communicate has gotten so fast and so rapid. And that can be a plus and sometimes a minus because, you know, I've seen literally on job sites where uh a subcontractor asks the general, hey, um what are we doing over here? And the general says, just go ahead and send me a change order. And, you know, sometimes that works, but, know, with the advent of smartphones and video, that subcontract probably, you know, could you make sure you say that loudly enough so my phone could pick this up? Because uh we've also seen, I'm sure it happens everywhere where you tell the general, I'm to do this work and yeah, go ahead and do it. when the bill is a change order and then when the time to get the bill paid, well, we really didn't authorize that or you should have waited for an efficient There's a lot of ways you can save money on a project. of course, one of the ways and it's actually a practice, which I find stunning is to literally take a subcontractor's bid or his bill and say, well, we're only going to pay you 85 % of that bill. Yeah. And if you don't want to, that 85 % will see you in court. It's not, ethically, it's kind of sketchy, but it happens. Not all the time. I'm not saying it's a widespread practice, but I've seen contractors really get put up against the wall financially because they couldn't get paid what they're supposed to get paid on some of these change orders. And you mentioned AI and it's right. And I use it every day. You know, I play with it, you know, use it for the podcast, of course, you know, you know, right. Sometimes emails, you know, like, how do you want, know, just, and it's just an assistant in that sense. I say this with, but is don't trust the damn thing because I've been times it's pulling me out and I've put my foot, my mouth so bad. And I was just like, where did you see that? Like, what the heck are you talking about? I'm like, Oh, Matthew, Matthew, oh trust it like still do your due diligence and you know I from from the CA side and seen saw a shop software review drawings and shop drawings and compare like some really cool stuff but again you can't just be like it doesn't mean space boom center like hold on that's a fast track let's raise the red flag yeah get into it see why Well, I mean, what you were talking about earlier, I think, goes back to what my answer is, which is trust your reps and pick up the phone and talk to somebody. I feel like if we are doing our jobs properly as manufacturers and building product reps, we are uh engaging with people in a way that they will trust us and trust that we are knowledgeable and we are giving them all the information that we can possibly give them in order to help them have a successful. project. And I feel like if we come from that perspective and offer ourselves as a resource rather than saying, buy my product, I think we'll be more apt to get those phone calls, which will help everybody in the process. Yeah, exactly. Coming from a sales background, was before, uh 15 years ago, I was tasked with the architectural division of our company, okay? Which was a talk about earn while you learn. Because I came from the sales side, Western regional manager, national sales manager, nothing wrong with that. But you have to approach the design community far differently. If you use the same tactics and techniques you used, you might use the contractor or distributor or sales rep. It just won't fly. mean, it's a whole different tempo. You have to think about the medium and long range implications of what you're doing because it's very rare you're going to, and I call these people 90 day wonders. know, they don't understand the architectural community. They jump into it thinking, well, I'm to show them how to do this. And six months later, they're out of a job because they hacked everybody off. Yeah. Do you find with the type of jobs, is there a particular style of job you like? Like I like step-suntenders, right? You just, because again, we've designed the BMW, we've got everything, we've got the right panels because I've done my homework, we've contacted, we've touched base, we've got the right, you know, weather membranes, everything, you know, for the showers, et cetera. It's all done. And then it goes out to bed. Yes, there's going be a request for alternates and I hate alternates. And that's exactly why I hate alternates. Because that story that you shared, that's exactly why. Because it's so fast paced and it's like second guessing. And then you just miss an angle because it's out of the blue. You haven't had the time to invest in that kind of stuff. So I like that particular style jobs, but for yourselves, are you enjoying like a performance based one? Or do you like the stiff sun, you know, the public projects that are, you know, specifying the products and going with it? So I'm a creative fine arts person. And so I tend to like the more challenging work because of the artistry that it allows for the products that we provide. And so I love anything that uses custom perforations, custom cutting. There's a lot of that. We're doing a lot of parking garages. And that's really been a lot of fun because we've been able to come up with some pretty amazing screens that look great with the rest of the campus. that just, you know, they blend in, but they also stand out in their own special way. And so I really enjoy that. We just finished a project in Wisconsin where we had three different perf patterns on one panel, which is pretty, that can be challenging to do and do it successfully. And the way that we had it bent and the flanges and all the design work that we did, and it's, you know, a couple of different colors really turned out nice. So, Awesome. do like the more complex projects. um Because it really I can I can feel the vision of what the architect and designer are thinking about and then we come in and help them realize that. And we, was one project we did with periphery screens and everything. And it was, it was really cool because it was a, a re-envelope of a public theater. was tied to a school and it was all stuck around the building and Frank, our, you know, our client at the time, he's like, it's like, Matt, what are we going to do with this? I'm going to rip down all the flat. It's leaking. We got to do it as part of the seismic operator we're doing. You know, he was about to, he's like, do you want to just put Coriand? I'm like, hold on, let's do a concept. And that's where we play with the concept. We took the fly tower. We originally proposed that we would do a nice video screen and the kids could do their work with this photography. In the end, the teachers bailed out, unfortunately, which was really cool. But the architecture was still there and we did the perforated screens and we did the uplight in between it. it wasn't even that artsy compared to the stuff I have seen out there in respect to, like you said, playing with the panels. Was there one particular project that really stood out? Or is that the one? Or is there one that you're like, my goodness, this is my favorite? Well, I loved there was a particular project we did. you can, know, Dean brought his guitar. I do a little bit of music on the side too. And it was a creative arts center. And we were actually able to cut and create music panels for the exterior of the arts center. And so I just thought that was so cool. And of course, the nerd in me tried to figure out what song it was that we had kind of put up there. but I needed more information. it was really beautiful. So it was great to be a part of that. Nice. And I know your stuff isn't as sexy and cool as that, but well... I'll tell you what, if I had to pick a job that I'm very proud of, and I'm very proud of our company having tackled it was uh the uh city center in Las Vegas. 64 acres, 6000 rooms, 8500 workers and uh Gensler, HKS, Leo Daly. were not, you talk about the spec of all time. We were not just based on design. You were proprietary. You will use nothing else. Don't don't slip in this. Don't try to solve that. Don't I would want to hear about it. It's going to be noble seal TS for six thousand rooms with the waterproofing. Not to mention anywhere on that project where there was tile or stone. Mm hmm. It was our crack isolation membrane or exterior deck membranes. was it was like a three year Christmas. I'm not kidding. Yeah, I'm not kidding. It was mind boggling. And it really vaulted our company into a different atmosphere because, know, we're kind of a boutique company. We have much larger competitors and all worthy competitors. The reason we do as well as we do, we have some proprietary components to our systems. Yeah, literally no one. can't believe no one's reverse engineered it or knocked it off. Knock on wood, knock on my guitar here. But yeah, it's just. There's a, I call it a cult of contractors and architects and spec writers who dive deep enough into our product to know that it's very singular. And so it's very rewarding when we get those kinds of projects actually based on performance, not on, know, not on oh whatever you might use to put your ball forward. We like primarily on the quality of our products. It keeps things simple. Not very cool. Now the word guitar has come up a few times, know, Holly mentioned, know, Dean, you just mentioned guitar. And this is a first for the podcast. Okay. Let's just be really clear. know, this is milestone because we've never had a live musician or a live, you know, song on this. And for the ones that are watching on YouTube, then great. Then, they're, you know, that they're going to see this. But for the ones who are just listening to those podcasts, you're in for a treat because Dean has brought his guitar and I have seen you perform when we first met last year. Cause again, we bumped into each other after getting off the elevator in Houston. It was that kind of stuff. And the next thing, the next day, the two of you were performing and I just like, just, oh, like totally out of, and you had a crowd, everyone, it like, you took, I think that was the moment from last. year. Which by the way, Brian was one who put us to, I was trying to find, I was trying to find, yeah, I bring my guitar everywhere, every week. Okay. Every week I travel. You know how some people have a comfort animal? Yeah. This is my comfort instrument. I feel safe on hold my guitar. oh It was kind of a crutch thing and like, you know, I play myself again, you're going to be way better than I am and everything. But the same thing, like I bring the ukulele whenever I like travel to tropical, like I go to Hawaii, I bring the ukulele. You got it. And I'll like, I remember the last night when I was, it was an A4LE conference and I was just sitting there on the beach just playing by myself, just enjoying, enjoying the stars and like, it's beautiful thing. It's a simple, you know, and thing is, Holly's a keyboard player. Now in her spare time, ha ha. She's taking up guitar. It's not busy enough. So you gotta bring the dual guitars next to you. well, I have a long way to go before I'll ever let anybody hear me live, but I'm learning. It's a lot of fun. Exactly. So would you like to play the first song on What The RFI? Let's try it. I'm going to pass the mic. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah, let me move my fingers up here. Yeah. Sounds like it's in tune! You ready, Holly? I'm ready. Used to spend my nights at a bar room I was the only love I've known But you rescued me from reaching the bottom And brought me back from being far too gone You're as smooth as Tennessee whiskey You're as sweet as strawberry wine You're as warm as a glass of brandy And honey, I stay stoned in your love all the time I've looked for love in all the wrong places Found the bottom of the bottle was always dry But when you poured out your heart I didn't waste it Cause there's nothing like your love to get me high You're as smooth as 10 % You're as sweet as strawberry wine You're as warm as a glass of brandy And honey, I stay stoned on your love all the time you You're as smooth as te-whiskey You're as sweet as strawberry wine You're as warm as a glass of brandy Honey, I stay stoned on your love all the time You're as smooth as Tennessee whiskey Tennessee whiskey Tennessee whiskey No one got hurt. No one got hurt. one got hurt. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tip your bartenders. Wow, incredibly it's that was Awesome. the thing, we almost never rehearse. That's true. I'm not kidding you. No. No, I we will talk about what songs we're gonna do and we'll maybe run through it one time. That's it. So it's always a little nerve-racking for us. That was phenomenal. You got any more performances while we're mean, sure. Sure, we'll do Johnny Cash. on his BBK radio. Here we go for another round. Bring in Mr. Cash to the scene. Oh cool. let's do it again. I'll make sure I don't go too. Okay, no worries. is a burning thing and it makes a fiery ring bound by wild desires I fell into a ring of fire I fell into a burning ring of fire I went down, down, down and the flames went higher And it burns, burns, burns The ring of fire The ring of fire uh The taste of love is sweet When hearts like ours beat I fell for you like a child Oh, but the fire went wild I fell into a burning ring of fire I went down, down, down and the flames went higher And it burns, burns, burns The ring of fire The ring of fire I hear that train a-comin' It's comin' round the bend And I ain't seen the sun I don't know when I shot a man in Reno two, all He's still blowing I into a burning ring of fire I went down, down, down and the flames went higher And it burns, burns, burns The ring of fire The ring of fire Woo! Since her time was a charm. That's right. It was that whole like, we never practice thing that we said earlier. I stabbed me in the back. I jinxed myself. that's alright. I did it to you. No worries. You heard it first on What the RFI. Be there or be square. The band is like, this is awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. This has been a Yeah. You again, you got to hang the hat on the first musical performance on the show. So you gotta give it that. You can say we were here. win. That's right. that's right. Thank you so much. Hear that? Yeah, exactly. You know, maybe next year. I don't know. Well, Holly, where can we find you? Where can people listening to go like, you're not only with your music talents, but you know, from the specification side of the metalworks, where can they find you to connect? um Americanmetalcraft.com and finishingdynamics.com and I'm really active on LinkedIn so feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn Holly Gottfriedson and just Google and look me up on the LinkedIn profile and so yeah please do that and then I do have a music page and I also do speaking engagements and that is Holly Gottfriedson.com and so you can connect me connect with me there as well. There you go. And uh as far as music, I used to play in quite a few bands. I've sort of pared that down over the years. My main central focal point is Church on Sunday. you may have heard, you may have seen it. uh Praise music has got to be a big deal in modern worship. And so being in Las Vegas, are, I'm surrounded by some fantastic musicians. The lead singer in our church band was named the Female Performer of the Year in Las Vegas. we some really good players. level me up. They force me to be a better player. As far as business wise, I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. I work for the Noble Company. I'm on LinkedIn a lot too. So just look Dean Moylan in on LinkedIn and of course Noble Company. We are a US owns company, US manufacturing company. We do projects nationwide and worldwide. And uh my phone number is 702-604-5366. me. There you go. Awesome. Thank you so much for being part of this. It was fantastic. Again, very special performance. Can't say that any other guests brought that to the table. That's the recommendation for future. That's the qualification. Thank you. Yeah. So architects, keep designing and contractors keep making those blueprints a reality. We'll see on the next one. Thank you! That was so Jesus