RFI Horror Stories: Demolition Disasters & Construction Nightmares featuring Zach Rapaport | Halloween Special

It’s Halloween, the one day of the year when the scariest things come out of the walls … literally. 👻

In this special Halloween episode of What the RFI?, Matt Brennan is joined by Zach Rapaport to share real-life RFI horror stories from the construction world. From demolition surprises and lead-time nightmares to change orders that make your blood run cold, this episode uncovers the spooky side of Construction Administration.

🧱 Topics covered:

The demolition discoveries that haunt every project
Lead-time delays that kill your schedule
Change-order chaos and how to stay calm
Contract clauses that save your soul
When bad news comes too late — and costs too much

Whether you’re an architect, contractor, or construction nerd, you’ll laugh, cringe, and pick up lessons to keep your next project from turning into a horror story.

🎧 Listen now and face your construction fears head-on.

Happy Halloween from What the RFI? 🕸️

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1:00:01

It's the scariest time of the year.And today I'm here with Zach,and we're gonna uncoverthe most haunting RFIs.So grab your flashlightand let's get into it.Woo hoo.(upbeat music)Welcome to What the RFI.I'm Matt Brennan, and thisis the podcast all about CA.Not only it is Halloween today,but I am joined by avery special guest, Zach.And Zach, you've got quite a historyand when it comes to RFI horror stories,tell about yourself.I do, I do.Thanks for having me, Matt.This is great.And the chats that we had,before we hopped on, I love it.I'm more and moreexcited as we get into it.So a little bit about me, I'mbased here in New York City.And also now that I've wornthe mask for a little bit,for Halloween, I'm gonna take you off.Also, no need to obscure my identity.New York City based,New York area raised.Originally got mystart right out of college,which by the way, I went to collegefor political science and legal studies.And now I do real estate development,design management andconstruction management.So message to the kids out there.It doesn't matterwhat you graduated with.On your bachelor's, you can always pivot.So fear not.So once I graduated,just wasn't reallysure what I wanted to do.I was studying for law school.Not enthused, nothing against attorneys,but just kind of sensethat it just wasn't reallywhat I wanted to do withthe rest of my life for it.It just wasn't, youhave to like what you do.And I grew up justoutside the city on Long Island.And my dad was a developer out there.And growing up, I kindof always just looked at,and he was a developer and also a GC,kind of vertically integrated.Small stuff, nothingmajor, mostly like homes,like high value homes,some multifamily work,some retail work, some out of groundwork.So growing up, I kind of just,I looked atconstruction as like a summer job.It wasn't really, I didn'treally look at it as a career,which is funny because I lived in a homewith someone who made it a career,a very successful career.But when you're growing up,you don't reallythink about it like that.So after college, but quick non-sequitur,actually right after college,a bunch of my friends weregoing to get their mastersor already had full-time jobs lined up.And I was nervous, Ididn't know what to do.So I did what any 22 yearold who wasn't sure what to dowould do when I movedto Alaska for six months.Wow. And yeah,I was a helicopter tour guide for theMendlet Hall Glacierfor about six monthsbefore, and it was great.Really into hiking at the time, still am.Back then it was like, if I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do,may as well just go hike for six monthsand get paid for it.It's not a bad gig.Can't complain of that.We go off-roading andsometimes we get rewardedfor doing trails for Onyx, right?It's a pretty cool app.So if you'reoff-roading, that's what we do.So yeah, it's nice to getpaid for what you love doing.It is, it's great.I'm fortunate to be in that position now.But when I came back from Alaska,I was trying to figureout what I wanted to do.And I just remember mydad, thick New York accent,comes home one day and he sees meat the kitchen table studyingand obviously not looking too happywith my LSAT practicescores and all that.And he walks in and he goes,"Dude, what are you doing?You're miserable.Come out with me onthe job site tomorrow,see if you like it."And I'll never forget this.And I credit a lot of it towhy I'm very roll up my sleeveswith my own company.I get to the job site andI guess wishful thinkingor a hopeful optimism.I step out of my car andI'm like, "Okay, great."Like, am I managing, likesee my dad and walk over?Am I managing a crew?Like, what's on my docket today?And he hands me a shovel and a broom.And he goes, "You dig until you knowwhat's going on here."And I was like, "I have a college degree.What do you mean, sir?Like, hold on.This is beneath me."And again, Matt, to this day,I credit that with myattitude really in general.It cultivated myability to treat everyonewith equal respect.I've been on job siteswhere not everyone is treatedwith equal respect andthat's critical for me.Always hello, goodbye.Thank you for your work.And it also helps with myconstruction management chopsbecause when you'reactually in the trenches yourselfyou're doing it.To start when you'rerunning conduit for electricaland you're running copper andwaste lines and digging holesand setting forms forconcrete foundationsand drilling helical piles.And I've done it all.Not all, all, but most, I would say.You understand the timings of things.You understand the sequencing of things.I can walk onto a job siteand without even speaking to the super,I can know what comes next.And I can make sure that that's scheduledand make sure that that's all in play.Which is kind of like my ace in the holewhen it comes to whatI do now with Meerkat.But without getting too ahead.Worked with my dad for a couple of years.Then I decided thatI, and most of his workwas on Long Island,pretty much all of his work.And my sites were set a little higher.So I started lookingfor jobs in the city.Started working with AGC that focusedon mostly hospitality based work.So restaurants, some retailfood and beverage conceptson the GC side.And some multifamily workand then some out of ground work as well.So I was pretty wellrounded those first couple yearsin New York City.From there I went to acouple of the GCs in total,almost 10 years working on the GC side.About nine and a half.And I like to say that my last GC clientwas a Danish coffee brandcalled Joe and the Juice.Because I, yeah, youmay have heard of them.But they hired acompany that I was working forto build a couple stores for them.And I was the lead PM.So I got to, you know,liaise with their team.And when we opened up the third storethat we opened with them, they were like,hey, what's with all the change orders?And I was like, well, you know, I hategetting change orders.It's not, I don't like it.It's not, I'm not happy about it,but your plans weren't great.And so, you know, we missed a coupledetails here and there.If you're happy with theproduct, I'm happy with it.I'm not happy I have togive you these change orders,but you need someone on the insidewho's gonna be, you know,reviewing these in greater detail.Maybe you have someone alreadyand we need tosupplement them or what have you.And I could see the gearsreturning and they were like,well, how much you just come work for us.And I was like, hmm,hadn't considered that,but let's do it, new adventure, why not?So I joined up with themand there was a great directorof development when I came on.He left shortly after Icame on, a matter of months,maybe two months.And then I got thrust intothe head of development chair.One of the first thingsthat I did out the gatewas basically reviewall of our unsigned leasesand work letters andall of our documentationto make sure that what wewere getting ourselves intowasn't going to cause, you know,potential forheartache for years sometimes.You know, you know as well as I do,if you don't have agas line or you need itand you have to deal with the utilities,it can be a chore to say the least.And timing, which we'llget into in today's show.Yes, sir, yes, sir.So once we kind of aligned and started,we beefed up our brandstandards a little bitso we could actually move at speed.When I came on, I think wehad maybe five or six storesand when I left, we had just over 40.So, nice, pretty quick.Yeah, all in a spanabout two and a half years.So we moved quick.How many were you managing at that time?What was that?How many were you managing at that time?Like personnel.Yeah.So when I came on, it was just me.And then-- Just you and them.Yeah, okay.And then how many projects,you were managing all those40 kind of over the 24 months?I was the direct point of contact,but the good thing is thatonce we developed a storein a market, so when I came on,I think we had one store in LA.By the time I left, Ithink we had four or fiveand I was able to relyon that market managerfor boots on the ground Intel.They weren't necessarilylearned on construction,but I got to like, even if,even though it waschallenging at the time,it actually allowed meto learn how to speakabout complicated thingswhen it comes to constructionand more simple terms,which in turn actually allows meto be a really good owner's repbecause my clients are not exactlyconstruction expertsand I don't expect them to be.But if I can explain howa screw hit a copper lineand now we're spewing andwe need to hit the ball valveand all that, if I can condense that downand make it more simple,then makes my job easierand makes it less complicated,which leads to less stress for everyone.So I actually, again,at the time, I was like,man, I really wish I had somebody who,I could fly around the countrywho knew what I was talking about,but pressure makes diamonds.So.(laughs) Exactly.And going back, like justvery inspired and intriguedand kudos to your dadkind of taking a siteand giving you that real life experience.And like you said it yourself,you gain your ownperspective and appreciationand which for yourwhole entire career and lifeis kind of taking on that role ofrealizing everyone's equaland that kind of stuff and you've got it.And share a similar storyof my own, like grade 11,I just walked onto aconstruction site and said,I want to work, I don't care.Let me just hitsomething, let me hammer something,let me dig, tell me, show me the ropes.And to this day, like,there's been lots of milestonesin life and everything,but that's one of those,probably in those top tens,where the sitesupervisor, Sean, gave me a chanceand said, sure, you want to work for us,we'll pay eight bucks, I'll do three.And to this day, like, youknow it, you get it, right?When you're starting adrawing, you're looking at details,your mind's eye just starts formulating,building that itself.And unfortunately, a lot of architectsthat are coming into this game,they've never even picked up a hammer.They've never loadedup a Brad Naylor, right?You don't even know whatthe compressor does, right?All these things,like some simple things,let alone the challengethat they face on site,or the other thing is the detailing.Let's just bring this Evecoming into this little thing.No problem, I can draw it in Revit.Yeah, how the heck are you goingto actually build that on site?You know, anyways, so that's so awesome.Always inspiring tohear others go throughthat similar kind of experience.And the way that your dad, that's topnotch, that's awesome.The old school guy,unfortunately he's left us,but you know, I kind of, it's okay.I live my life in his image daily.Really, really special guy.But it's funny that you say thatbecause I get that sense too.And I think that for a lot of owners repsand project management firms,I can understand why they do it,but I really onlyhire people who are PMs,as PMs who have actualconstruction experience.Because I think that there's a lot,even if you have aconstruction management degree,if you haven't spent anextended amount of time on site,if you haven't gone from a demoed spaceto a completed spaceand been on site every dayin your steel toes and gotten dustyand actually sensedit and heard everythingand belt it, movepipe yourself, whatever,it's hard to conceptualize the process.In real terms and not in these loftykind of like theoretical ideas of like,hey, this comes afterthis, not for this one, man.And if you were onsite, you would know thatwe're gonna do our HVAC after the ACTor something likethat for whatever reason.So there's all kinds ofintricacies in this business.And I think that a lotof people lose the ideathat there's intricacy becausethey want a one size fits alllike a universal applicationbecause SOPs arenice, they're comfortable.But that's not always thecase in our business, is it?No, yeah, so many times.And that's the big thing.You draw and you spendhours detailing this way,this way, this building,maybe it has a step foundation,whatever the case is.And then it gets to siteand something goes wrong.Just like, oh, it was so detailed.We even walked you through some of these.You even asked RFI's about this?Still couldn't followthe simple instructions,but no, it's all good, life changes.But it's having that right attitude,being adaptable in siteand how can we work togetherto kind of get it back on track.Exactly.So given being Halloween,all the RFI horror stories,the surprisingsubmittals, changes, everything,we've got a variety oftopics that we'll seewhere we get through today and everythingbecause with your hugeamount of experience,again, from being in the field,being now to the owner's rep site,I'm sure you've got a handful of storiesthat we can banter back and forthand keep the names out of itand do with discretion and professional.But again, for thelisteners that do listen to this,they really appreciate the fact that,hey, it's called a learning curve, right?Take it as a learningmoment of your own of going,oh, shoot, I've got a similar jobthat might be in the same process.Or I'm actually in thatsame moment right now,how do I get out of this?And I know the listenersthat really appreciate this.So one of them, and again, we'll keepthis very Halloweenish,but uncovering the demo works.Oh, spooky.(laughing) Well, first off, have you ever uncoveredthrough a renovation or aTI or anything like thatin your demo and something?Have you seen anything like really crazy,like a message in the bottle or skeleton?Man, I have.Yeah, I have, it's alittle gross of a story.So I'm gonna tell you,and if we wanna edit it,because it's not fitfor universal consumption,we'll do that, but I'll tell you.We'll put you on the episode saying,this is a little bit out there.Warning, skeletal remains.But not a human.We were doing a project,a big multifamilyadaptive reuse renovationin Midtown East in Manhattan.Building was very old, very, very old,and it was under-maintained for decades,which I think is why myclient was able to pick it upfor relatively cheap.And the plans looked great.You know, the renders looked great.Day one.(laughing)I'm sorry, it's just so funny.Day one, we do our ribbon cutting.We're in there, we have asledgehammer up on a scaffoldwe're ready to starttaking down the ceiling.Matt, I kid you not,we take our first hit.It was like three guys with sledgehammersup going into the ceiling.(laughing)Like, not even kidding,hundreds of dead rat skeletons.This is so, so New York, right?No kidding.Someone was recording this, right?Oh my God, I wish, I wish.We had the ribbon, like thebig scissors and the ribbon,and then the scaffold and we were like,hey, one, two,everybody's in a hard hat, three.They hit it, rat skeletons falling,hitting people in the head.People start screaming, they're like,oh my God, what is that?(laughing) What?Oh man, at least none are moving too.Oh my, oh, that's wild.Yeah, typically notjust one, just so cheap.Insane.Less, less gross, I guess you could say,but most of the demothat I've done in New York,especially in these older spaces,you always find somekind of weird time capsulefrom days past.I remember I was takingapart a space to do a yoga studioand in the Upper East Side in Manhattan,and we took down some walls,and I think I found theremains of someone's lunchfrom the 80s, so it was likea can of tab, remember tab?Did you guys have that up in Canada?Yeah, no, we had, what was the,anyways, yeah, yeah,spam, that kind of stuff.Exactly, like discontinueditems and sodas and all that.And so, I don't know, it's like you'restepping back in timewhen you're taking thestuff apart sometimes.And I'm trying to thinkif there was anything elsethat was super funky.Oh, we did find, this isfunny, we were taking apart a,we were doing some demoon a bed and breakfaston Nantucket to basicallyupdate it to be a boutique propertyand we found a safe in the basement.Under, there was abasement and no one knewthat there was a sub-basementuntil we actuallystarted redoing the floors.And so, we found thesafe and we were like,whoa, what's in this thing?And we called the locksmith,the locksmith was booked out a weekbecause it's an island, Nantucket,so we were like, everybody's staring atthe safe for a week.We're like, what's in it?Like, you think there'sa million bucks in it?What do you think is in it?Memoirs, what is it?Stock bonds, youknow, what could this be?One letter.Like hundreds of dollars and like,turns out, so anticlimactic,turns out that it'slike a couple of boxesof like empty, empty like jewelry boxesfrom like necklacesand bracelets and stuff.And I was like, whywould you lock this up?Give us something cool.But it was like the talkat the site for like that.It was like, what doyou think is in the safe?And like everybody's likeoutside having a cigarette.It's like, I bet it'ssomebody's birth certificatefrom the 1800s or something like that.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Oh, that would have been fine.You guys, yeah, youshould have had like a pooland in the end it sounds like nobodywould have gotten it,which is unfortunate.It wasn't as crazy as it could have been.When we were doing arenovation of my last houseand everything, becausewe were sub-flooring it up,you know, because it wascarpet and we made it all leveland then we're gonna put new flooring.And then of course Iput the underlayment down.And before I put theunderlayment down, I was like,you know what, someone'sgonna rip up this floor one dayand I'm not gonna be here.So I quickly like didthe whole police, you know,murder scene, you know, lie down.Yeah, yeah, yeah.I got, you know, I got mykids to draw all around meand then I put them down there.And then I said, theBrennans are watching you.So the moment someone redoes that floor,that laminate floor in my old house,which I'm not there anymore,the moment they rip that up,they won't wanna be there anymore.And it wasn't bad, but you know,even did in bread and Sharpie.And again, it wasn't too creepy,but it would be, it'd set meoff if I was in that moment.I'd be like, shit, I'm justripping off the entire floor.Let's just reframe the house.You know, I don't care.Call the ghostbusters.Exactly.Let's have a little bit of fun.Fact of we're watching you.It's just like, yeah, Ithought it was pretty brilliant.I love that, man.I love that.So do that.When you're doing your redos,do that whole timecapsule thing if you can.I think that's kind of fun.We did it one school where wedid put an actual time capsuleand put a vault under there.And it was all the students for the yearwhen the school was completed,they all got to put their stuffand then they sealed it off and saying,we'll open this in 20 years or somethingand made a big plaque.And yeah, it was pretty cool.And it was a neat idea.And I think doing thatfor more and more jobs,I think is kind of fun.Shows the history of where we've beenand to hear where itis and predictions too.Yeah.And it looked cool.I'll just put an old iPhone in thereso that when someoneunearths it and they're like,what's this?And it's because we have our phonesimplanted in our heads at that point.So they're like, why wouldyou need a device for that?Like I can call my dad right now.Like,(laughs)Well, I'm getting, Idon't know about you,but I'm getting the,you know, I just turned 42and I was working with a young groupand everything before and I was like,oh yeah, that was on the floppy disk.I was on a CD and they'rejust kind of a dumb founder.You're like, no, come on.You gotta tell me how a CD is like or.Oh, you mean the save icon?Yeah, exactly.What's that?Napster, that sounds like a cool drink.No, no, no, no.It was a big revolutionwhere you had to download music.What do you meandownload and part and burn CDs?How did you burn CDs?Oh goodness.Oh, I get it, man.I get it.Totally.But yeah, other than a pipe andeverything like that,I, you know, we've kind of lookingwhen we're at any schools,that was kind of our biggest surprises.One demo and again, at this last place,for me from a horrorstory was I was getting some,I put in some inceliumspeakers and everythingand you know, to get thelines over to the side wall,you know, basically Ihad to drill through joistsand then fish it over andthen it went in behind the crownand it was all nice and cleanbecause it was a renovation, right?I didn't want to tearoff the whole ceiling.Well, the first hole Idrilled through the joists,no problem, but I wanted, it was getting,trying to fish the line,it was just being really finicky.I wasn't getting anywhere.So I thought, oh,I'll drill another hole,but on an angle, second hole.Well, of course my luck and I, you know,this is how I went in the lottery,just in the sense of Imanaged to hit a half inchpex pipe right dead on.Boom.Thankfully I had the crawlspace door open, ran down.The thing was out in twoseconds, but I was like,Rick, now I got to really rip up the wallor the ceiling just to fix this.Oh, it's just like my luck kind of stuff.So those are, those are the demos,the demo side of it, butyeah, always, always good fun.Lead times, that's anultimate true nightmareon its own in that sense.Were you, you know, even like today,but like, have youever been where you justcouldn't complete aproject because the lead timewas so, so long?Yes.Yeah.The first one thatcomes to mind is the onethat I rallied against forweeks until the designersfinally overruled me.I was a general contractorand they were insistent,insistent to use a specificCalicata marble forall of the countertops.It was, it was a 250unit multifamily renovation,interior renovation.Yeah.So not a small amount of Calicata marble.No.And when we spoke to the,to our Italian counterpartsabout lead time, they werelike, I'm not even going to tryan Italian accent becausethat would be the scariest thingon this podcast.I'm not going to do it.Well, it's going to take.(laughs)Nice.To my Italian friends,just know I love you.I'm just messing with you.Yeah.I think they said that itwould be something like fourweeks to, I don'tknow, just making it up,but like four to six weeksto produce and then like sixto eight weeks at sea andthen three weeks to fabricateon site or something like that.It turns out that whenthey gave that lead time,they had assumed that theyhad enough in that quarrythat they were already in.So they got probablyabout 85% of what we neededout of the quarry.And then they said, we'reall, there's nothing left.(laughs)Another color.So then they were like,you guys can wait six monthsfor us to go through the Italianmagistrate to allow usto open up our nextquarry in this vein of marbleor we can give you a different color.The pink.Keep it a pink.Lots of that.So he, yeah, no one uses pink anymore.That's scary.Yeah, there's a scary topic.Yeah.So I'll never forget onone of the weekly calls,I'm like, guys,engineered stone is produced herein this country.Can we just like, can wefinish these off and then waitfor it to come in andthen just ref, like,is there anything we can do?And the designer said,the designers turnedto the project owners,like, you know, the peopleinvested in this have spentover a hundred milliondollars on this renovation.And they go, can you guys wait six monthsto open the project?And we're like, do youreally just not like, what?Think about this, like,like, like a seven year oldwould have the logicbehind, maybe I don't,maybe I shouldn't evenrequest to wait for six monthswhen we've been on thisproject for three years.No kidding.It's like, you know, likeyou bring the kid example,you know, you just likestand out of the toy store.We can go in.No, can we, do you want to wait, youknow, five more hoursor?Exactly.Like, clearly we're not doing that.So what did you find?Like, of course you didn't wait.We know that, but.No, no, we didn't.Yeah, well, the owner gotso upset at that commentson that call thatthey basically just said,you guys are all good here.We appreciate what you'vedone for 85% of the units.We're going to figurethe rest out ourselves.And they just went, they went to a local,a local, you know, stone fender,and they found the best match.And they just, you know, they took one,one set of professionalphotos and it's, to me,it looked effectively the same.I'm not a designer and Irespect what designers do,but to me, it lookedeffectively the same.So I remember at the end of it, when we,when we sourced that,they were like, this is like,25, 30% lower thanwhat we got from Italy.And I was like, I'm not,I'm not going to say a word.I'm not going to say anything.No, I made my case.I made my case.I did not die on the hilland we moved on, but yes,lead times, challenging, challenging.We also had mostrecently, do you want one more?No, no, no, keep going.You're on a roll.We also had more recently,we had a project we weredoing where the elevator companytold us it would be 12months and six months in,they said it would be another 18.And we were like, that can't happen.So what do we do?And it took, I thinkthree or four calls with themfor them to finallyrealize that what we had,or what they had included in their specwas actually not what we needed.And it was an oversightby the general contractorto basically sign off on that specwhen it wasn't even what we had requestedin the first place.So, it took some really granular andnuanced detailed reviewto understand that like,we don't have to wait 18 monthsfor something we don't even want.So all good.And then we got it acouple of months later.So it was fine.Yeah.Yeah.Like there's always a solution,always, always a solution, always.They're totally, yeah.And that's the thing is just,again, how can one pivot lookat it and then work with it?But one elevator horror story I hadwas we were doing brand new high rises.And the first thing is owner,because it was a private developer,so we had a little bit of flexibility,wasn't going like aopen tender or something.We said, all right,what elevator group doyou want to work with?Well, we really like this group.Fantastic.I love them too.Done them a lot of schools.And called them up, said,this is what we're doing.We've got an 18 and a 22 story high risegoing in this location.What model do you recommend?How many, you know, wherewe're thinking two for sure.You know, we're thinking a third.Yeah, these are it.Got the model, got the parts,it's a great game.Y'all the cut sheets, drew up the core,perfect, sent it back,had this coordination.And then we started drawing.Fast forward three years,once everything was all,or not even, I thinkjust two years or whatever,but basically onceyou got all the permitsand they were, I finally got the parkadeand they're finally doing the tower.Then we get the shop drawings.I'm like, this is notwhat we talked about.This is,this is different.So we had to make some radical changes,but again, just trying to be proactive.And it's like, please let usgo back to what you gave me.It's all documented, but just thenightmare that brings,because now you're designing on the flyand you're like, what am I compromising?Because, and there's no options,because this is, we'vechanged the model or whatever.Oh, anyway, so.Oh, I know it.Yeah.Important kind of key.Those almost shaped the whole project.This little, the heart, you know,sometimes shouldn't be,but it does and it changes.But yeah, justwrapping up the lead times.One thing was we had a fewjobs that couldn't wrap upbecause they didn't get thedistribution panels on time.Now, two though, theydidn't listen to us,listen to myself whenwe're at the first site meetingsaying, where's the panel shop drawings?Because I want to review this and givethis back to you todaybecause I know this isn'ta three month lead time.We're still having supply chain issues.This is going to be eight to 12 monthsand your projectschedule is only eight months.So we're not going to energize this.You're not going to get substantial.What do you want to do?Just get those drawings, those shopdrawings to us right now.Get that order and rightaway so we can avoid that.So yeah, lead times lead times that suck,but what has been themost shocking change orderthat you've seen to date?Ooh.A lot of them.This one's a fun one.I did a project recentlyin which, I don't know.Yeah, I mean, I guess it'sa good one to talk about.So it's a cautionarytale into making surethat you standardize yourbid template for an RFP.We were doing a project, a restaurant,and for whatever reason,the owner didn't want to use astandardized template.And the drawback with that is thatyou get different proposalsthat cover different thingsthat are in different formats,and it's harder to ensure that you havea full and cohesive GC packagewhen you're seeingtotally different formats.So we had, my team is very circumspectand very careful when it comes to review.We had four GCs, all withdifferent bid templates,all with differentexclusions, exclusions.It was just messy to say the least.Not by our doing, morejust because we approached itin a way that was not themost effective way to start.And so we ended up goingwith a GC who was the lowest,which is not always the bad thing.I know everyone says like, "Lowest GC,"but if you're properlybettered and they're hungry,it's fine.We start the project,we sign the contract,we start the project, and they go,"Okay, so who's gonna buy all the lightfixtures in the tile?"And I was like, "You,what do you mean who?It's you.You want me to go and buy 60 hi-hats?That's not for me to do,that's not for the owner to do."And they were like,"Well, per our contract,"and I cut them off right there.I was like, "Listen, wejust signed this thingsix hours ago.I still have an opportunity,probably legally, to nullify this.I need to know right now if you'reincluding this or not,or if this is some kind of game."And I shook them a little bit.I think I screwed with them a little bit.Because I tone drop, and I was just like,"You are not messingwith the right person here.We are not going to allow this to happenthis early in the project especially."No.So go back to your bidsheet, put it on this bid format.I don't like overruling my client,but sometimes you needto do things a certain waybecause you know thatthey're tried and true.And put it all into this.Mark out your inclusions and yourexclusions in this box.Put it this way.And magically, a $75,000change order disappeared.Oh, surprise, surprise.Crazy.Yeah.Good on you for saying the precedent,because that's always that game, I find,from the architectural standpoint.That first change order,and when it's not even legit,it's kind of like,where you raise your eye,and go, "What the heck is this?Or where is this coming from?"That moment, that second that comes over,how you handle it,that sets the precedentover where thingsbecome second nature to the,it just becomes, "Oh, ofcourse we'll give a new changeor they'll prove it."Because they did it on thisone and this one and this one.But if you stand yourground like you said and went,"Hold on, we're readyto cancel this thing.We'll start from scratchand get a new GC on this."That was, I agree, thatwas the right approachbecause you set theprecedent going forwardthat smarten up, do your job.Bingo.Yes.Let's work together and just start.Let's make something great here.But let's not get into this nonsense.Totally.And I always like to say two thingswhen it comes to change orders.One is that I was a GC.I know that game.GCs that I've workedwith have been amazing.All of them I would work with againand they're still on my bid lists.But I do know just being on the insidethat part of the GCbusiness is doing things like that.They could be themost genuine GC possible,but if there is an opportunity for themto increase their profit margin,rationally they will.So it makes sense tome, but like you said,sets the precedent.Being on the GC side,if you send that first change orderand it's signeduncontested, it's open season.Yeah, that's right.It's like it's, you can,I'm not gonna say that theclient becomes a doormat,but it's more like you knowthat if there are certain thingsthat you would normallyinclude for a client relationshipthat maybe you misswith your subcontractorssuch as Finset when you're doing tile.If your subcontractor didn't include itbecause they thought theyhad a flush stub straightto begin with and they didn't need itor flash patching, things like that,then you would know notto go to the client on thatand you would just eat it.You would eat thecost and your 25% marginwould become 24.8.But if you know they're gonna go for it,flip it over to themwith additional OH and Pand general conditions.Why not?Because why not?Yeah, so.Oh, how do you think?You wanna make thatextra money too and I get it.But that's whereyou're having a good teamon both friends makes the difference.Yeah, and I always sayin my project interviews,for Meerkat, I'mlike, listen, I was a GC.I know the dirty tricks.I know how that process works.So I'm able to poke holes init and read between the linesand understand if it's legitimate or not.And you know if I come toyou owner and I tell you,hey, this is a legitimate change order,that you know that I've fully assessed itand that I fully vetted it.I've reviewed it againstthe plans, their contract,their inclusions,their schedule of values,their exclusions and itis a valid change orderthat was either a designmiss, a field condition,whatever the case.If it was my miss, I'd tell them too.Like, hey, I missedthis in the scope review.Yeah.You know, I'm sorry.But that's why wehold, you know, five to 10%for change orders andfield conditions because,you know, I know everyone is so excitedto work with a robot.But to me, I think that there's,even though mistakes happen,there's a beauty to working with humansbecause if you have agood team, it's exciting.You know, errors andall, warrants and all.So.Yeah, absolutely.Again, that collaboration is key, 100%.And yeah, kind of asyou were talking about,like one story, I thinkI was sharing it before,but it was doing sixdaycares throughout the province.And so we issued, you know, there was,mechanical came to a fire damper changeand now we had to add one location.So guess what?Six proposed changes went outto all these different daycares.We're all being built by different GCs.And some of the subtrades were on the same jobs.So when we got pricing, it was like,yep, good, good, good.This is odd.This one's a lot.And it's like, this is way high.Oh no, that's fair market value.I'm like, well, do you want me to go getthe other sub trade that'sdoing my other, you know,school to do the same thing?But anyways, that'sjust, yeah, don't, yeah.And that's the precedent.Cause there is that moment wherethere's going to be a mistake on sitewhere it's going to like,hey, can you scratch my back this time?And vice versa.And it's just, yeah, again,going back to the teamatmosphere and that attitude,it does play really well.Cause yeah, we're humanthings are going to happen,you know, if it's fairand reasonable, absolutely.You know, we'll pay forit and that kind of stuff,but don't start nickel in and diming overa little, little stupidthings here and there.Cause it's just goingto come back and bite youwhen there's a big screw upand we've got toaccommodate that, you know, on site.Yeah.And look, it's, youbring up a good point.And this is something that I doand that I don't thinkall owners reps do is,and I tell my clients that I do it.Like I think some,there's, there's three categoriesfor what I'm about to tell you.And one is they try to keep the budgetas razor thin aspossible at the beginning.Then you end up with aboatload of additional costs.Then there's the second option.The second methodologyfor GC budgeting is to,this is my preferred, isto, is to tell them, you know,Hey, listen, things are going to come up.I think we need a contingency.I think I call, Idon't call it a contingencybecause sometimes theythink contingency is free money.I call it, I call it, andcause language is important.I call it the piggy bank.So we're only breakingthat up in case of emergency.We're only breaking thatif you miss it, I miss it,the sub miss it, the owner missed it.That's, that's what,that's what that's for.That's not if you missedsomething or you bid somethingthat's non-conquipliantthat you can break thatbecause you can't and I'll catch you.So do not.But it's kind of like a debit account.It's like, Hey, we need overtimeso we can make our date this Saturday.I don't want to change order for that.I want you to takethat from our piggy bank.And, you know, I don't want to increasethe contract value for that.And if you use all ofit, then you use all of it.Right.If you don'toftentimes what I'll talk to my,to my client about,I'll say like, Hey, listen,we have another like5,000 bucks in piggy bankand the GC did a great job.Just let them keep it.It's a project bonus.You know, it's likeultimately end of the day,especially if we're doing like amulti-location rollout,we want partners who areexcited to work with us again.It's, it's so much less.I think a lot of peoplesee it as like a unit thing.And I'm building a company in which Ilike to treat peopleso equitably that theywant to jump out of their seatwhen I call them tohelp me with somethingbecause time is alwaysthe enemy in this business.So I need to havereliable people who I could calleven for like, like you said,like a market rate change order check,say, Hey, do you havefive minutes to reviewwhether this is legit?That means everything to me.And I do that by makingsure everybody's paid on time.Everybody's treated with respect.I, hello, goodbye.Thank you for your work.It's, it's all important stuff.Yeah.No, I absolutely, you're right.Again, the whole teamattitude, it works better.And yeah, I've been onjobs on both where it's like,I don't want to work with this GC everagain kind of stuff.But, but these ones,I can't wait to do the nextjob with them because it was,we were, we were cracking the champagneat the end of the projectbecause it was so exciting.It was thrilling.It was worth it.It wasn't that bitter, youknow, bitter moment going,Oh, we finished the job.Great job teaming.You have to give that,you know, well done speech.And it's like, I can't dothis because it's not me.This was all lies.There is no harmony at this point.Totally man.No, too funny.But have you seen a lot ofprojects die and get revivedand come back to life?I've seen projects, yes and no.A lot of times when I'm doing,I'm working with most,most of my clients right noware either venturebacked or like investor backedconcepts that are lookingto expand and expand quickly.So a lot of times it'snot that the projectswill necessarily be live, but you know,we'll be working on a potential location,call it one, two, threemain street for like a month,two months, three months.And for whatever reason,either the landlord triesto renegotiate at the endor the seller tries torenegotiate at the end.And we may haveschematics test fits, you know,we might even be close tolike design documentationand a permit set by thetime we get the call that says,and this doesn't happenoften because I typically tryto make sure that wedon't get too over our feesbefore it gets too far ahead.Yeah, recently I've hada couple that, you know,whether they're fromrenegotiation or from, you know,a change in theunderwriting, a change in the eventual,you know, the endusers operating expensesdoesn't start to makesense with the, you know,with the rent and thecommon area maintenance chargesand things like that, that they just die.And it's the first coupleof times that it happened,it was like, felt, I mean,sad of course, but you know,cause you put a lot ofwork into these things,but then it also, I don't know,not to get likeesoteric and philosophical,but I think that notnecessarily that everything happensfor a reason, but I dothink that if there is,it's not like any deal is perfect.There's no 100%, yes,everyone's super happywith everything on thisthing, but if there are dealsthat have, you know, whatI call like a lot of hairor like a lot ofcomplication, if you try to force itthrough, that doesn't go away.It just kind of gets swept under the rugand then eventuallyit rears its ugly headand then you getdelayed for a couple of weeksor you have a fieldcondition or the landlord forcessomething on you that, you know,you don't want to be forced upon.And so at the first couple of times,but I just kind of feltreally sad and I was like,oh, I wish we got that one.Now I'm just like,okay, wasn't gonna work.Wasn't gonna work to begin with.And whether that's like,you know, a coping mechanism,whether it's real, younever know, but either way,it allows me to mournfor exactly 34 minutesand then I'm on to the next.So it's more of just like a mental shift.Perspective or a perspective shift.It's not often that I see them die andthen get resurrectedas much as I try towarm up the defibrillators.A lot of times they go andthey go and they stay gone.I had two dealsrecently that were put on,I think the term usedwas indefinite pause,which is a euphemisticway of saying they've died.But the good thing with them is thatthey're large enough,I think that, and theywere far enough alongon design andcontemplation regarding business plan.And, you know, we hadstakeholders involvedand all the contracts are cut now,but what was cool is that, you know,when we were able toascertain that they were, you know,kind of put on life support,I had the idea toreach out to the sellersof the projects basically and say,"Hey, would you be open tome brokering this thing?"Because that would allowmy team to continue working,that would allow thedesigners, the architects,the generalcontractor, everybody that was,the projects were mid-flight.We were cooking and then we got the call,shovels down, pencils down, you know,mouse and keyboards down.And they were like, "Yeah,if you find a buyer, you know,you guys slot right in,we get our check, we walk,and you guys build the rest."And so I am grateful to be anentrepreneur in many ways,but a lot of times in moments like that,I'm like, if I was just a, you know,a director at a company,I wouldn't necessarily have the libertyor the ability orcontacts to be able to do that.But I've been, you know,kind of like sellingthose around a little bit,you know, kind oflike parading them aroundin conversations that I have atnetworking events and such.And there's some good interest.So I'm hoping,I'm hoping that I can resurrect thembecause they're great projects,but I'm not going to hold my breath.You know, I'm moving forward.And if they comeback, then I'll staff up.And if they don't,then I'll staff up anyway,because I'm growing somewhere else.So only forward, only forward.A hundred percent.Yeah, there was onespecific city districtthat really does kill a lot of projectsbecause their reviewtimes are just completelynot reasonable, not ethical, it's bad.And that's where we've seen jobs go infor a development permit,just to get that approvaljust from the shape and form.And that goes in there for two years.And they just, you know, it's like,what's going on, what's going on?And they just play the game.Oh, it's under review.It's under review.It goes to this council meetingand just nothing relating to the project,but just very resilient.And not just geared towards individuals,it's geared justtowards the whole community.And that's probablyone of the other reasonswhy we have a housingcrisis at that moment,because these permitsare just taking so long.So we've seen owners justsay, this is not worth it.This district is such a waste of my time.And they basically just sell it.And then you get someowner that does come back,who has time that goes andthey'll pick up and be like,hey, you did the concept drawings.Can we finish it?Sure, sounds good.So we've seen that wherethose projects have diedwithin the city, andthen they've been revivedand come back to lifein that kind of sense.But yeah, I'm trying tothink of any other onesthat I personally did.I did a couple homes,really high-end homes.And then unfortunately, they just said,yeah, we just don't have the budget now.And I was like, well,that's why we were talkingabout budget from day one, but hey,that's, I'm glad you atleast figured that outversus the thing half framedand realizing you hadno money to finish it.Like, so positive.Matt, let me ask you a question.What do you think,talking about that districtthat you were just talking about,that it's like thequagmire, the perimeter quagmire.Why, I guess, two-part question.Why do you think it's like that?And then what do youthink can be done to solve it?Is it a federalgovernment intervention issueonto local politics?Is it an activism thing?Is it, because we deal withthat a little bit down herein New York.There's somethingcalled a hotel special permitthat's required in orderto build any new lodgingout of grounds thatyou can do conversions.But I don't know if you've seen the priceof a hotel room here, butit's astronomically highbecause the supply is so smallbecause we have a lot of touristsand people love coming here.Exactly.It is a net, it's a net negativeto not have moresupply coming into the city.And I don't say that justas someone in development.I say that as a NewYork City resident as well,that we should have more hotel rooms,but for whateverreason that permit existsand they give like two hotelspecial permits a year too.Oh gee, so they arereally controlling themthat the amount of flowof hotels coming into that.Interesting.Yeah, and I think the reason whyis probably because they wanna focuson multifamily development,but no one's building multifamilybecause there's also somuch red tape and hurdlesand rat skeletons in the ceilingthat it's incredibly challenging.So back to, I had aquestion, but please answer that one.Yeah, I know.So I think I'll answeryour second question.Kind of like the one thing,like we were doing a school, right?And we went for thepermit process and everything.And it still took a long time at thisparticular district.And when we, you know,like we kept calling themand calling them, hey,when are we gonna getour first round of comments?Is there any comments?And we got our commentsand I looked through itand it was like three, four pages.And I was like, holy smokes,there's a lot of go-through.So again, just copy andpaste that into a Word documentand then just started formally respondingto each little line item.And there was a couple oflittle points that picked up.But one thing I find with districtsand kind of doing this for so long,it's like, why are you fussing aboutthese particular details?This has nothing with you.What you guys should befocusing on is A, the site plan,the zoning, you know,make sure that we havethe right amount of parking stallsbased on your zoning by-law.If there's bike stalls,those kinds of things,then the next plan you shouldbe looking at is life safety.Is it matching what thebuilding code is requiringand following that?And then if anything, sure,skip to the end of the packageand look at the elevations,you know, the pretty picturesand just making surethat matches what was doneat the development permit,you know, maximum heights,you know, again, allbased on the by-laws.Like that's what theyshould be working on.But yet I find they gettotally cut up in the weedsand it's like they'refocusing on this stuff.And it's like, well, first of all,you got a building permit,so we'll call that our 60%.By the way, we're so far ahead.We're like that detailyou're looking at it,it's done, it's not thishalf-baked detail or anything.And then the other thing, the only thingthat should be looking at the floor plansis just from theaccessibility requirements.So it's really kind of buildings by-laws,what they should bechecking, checking the siteand then basically checking accessibilityand travel distanceand the fire life safety.So it was like four plansthey should just be looking atin depth, but they getso caught up in the weedsand everything else.And going back tothis one school project,I had this individual plan checkerthat unfortunately hadto go above her head.We didn't want to do that.That was kind of the finalstraw, but we had enough.She was trying to say whatthe structural engineer notedfor his calculations are incorrect.Hold on, excuse me.Are you signing off on these drawings?Did you be part of this?This is none of your business.He's the one that gave you his schedules.You know, he's got the liability on this.And yet you're tellinghim to change the note.That's not happening.End of story. That's wild.Exactly.That's kind of thestuff where they all wantto be their things.Or again, when it comesto like development permit,well, this is a real gray areabecause we can have the whole ideawhat the building shouldlike based on my tastesand your tastes and vice versa.What is it?How is this helping the community?Yes, I don't want to see a square box up.You know, I like having goodarchitecture in those citiesand anywhere for that matter,even if it's just a residential home.I like seeing good creative architectureversus a single simple box.Of course, yeah.But to be so criticalabout how we're doing thingsand go through that process, you know,is that really thebest effort of your time?Is that really your business?Are you even allowed to commenton that type ofdesign loading or somethingor challenging the code?And those are the things I find thatcities get so buried inand it doesn't make sense, right?It's like a number of years ago,I had to go renew my driver's license.It was a five minute task in total,but I was there for two hoursbecause I had to go see this personand this person and this person.It's the same thing with drawings.They do this whole thing.There should be almost be like a managerin some of these cities that are just,they're the pushers, right?They're basicallysaying, okay, you got this day.I'm gonna see you tomorrow to grab itand I'm gonna deliver itto Henry and engineering.And while he's doingit, I've got the building.Seriously, to gothrough some of these reviews,it should take a weekand if you do it efficientand hey, you would know even your queueis like a modular plan.We know when it's gonna enter the queueand we know when it's gonna be donebecause once it's thereand you could even havethis all online saying,yeah, it's entering the queue.Just like if you bought acar off of Ford or something,you could see, oh,it's in production, great.Now we would lock down the estimate,date, time it's gonnabe delivered and done.And I think if we, goingback to the systematic sideof things in the cityhalls and what they're doing,that's the problems that are not,they're running everywhere.And the particular onethat I opened up with,yes, the government did get involvedbecause they're hearingall these horror storiesfrom all these peopleappealing and saying,we're trying to solve the housing crisis.We're trying to build stuff,but this district is justroad blocking us from the start.The government hired a whole new staffto come in and help,not help with the reviews,to help theindividuals doing the reviews.And it was just like, what are you doing?And it did nothing.So we can have-The bureaucracy.Yeah, bureaucracy.I'm sure we could have awhole political podcast on that,episode just on that.But to answer the question in short,I think it's the processesthat are currently in placeand nobody really knowsand no one's interestedand they wanna run at this nice slow paceand they're looking at stuffthat really doesn'tapply to them necessarily.Focus on what you're governing to do.I couldn't agree more.And I think it's funnybecause I always like to jokethat there was a wholeindustry that came aboutbecause government is soinefficient and it's expediting.I don't know if you have that up in BC,but in New York,there are people who arepaid handsome amounts of moneyto know the ins andouts of the governmentbecause it's so overly complicatedthat you basically pay someone for accessto the borough commissioner of Manhattanwhen you don't get a plan.I just had to do it last week.I had a plan set that was infor a post-approvalamendment to renew a permitbecause we're stilldeveloping financing for itand it wasn't looked at for six weeks.So I had to call in a favorand spend X amount of dollarsfor them to pick up the phoneand call the borough commissionerto ask them to ask the person to reviewand stamp approve our plans.Why?Yeah.Crazy.(laughs) Yeah, shouldn't be.Yeah, again, thewhole babysitting clause,I don't want to babysit.I shouldn't have these automaticreminders in my account.No.You should be surprised at me.Oh, I got a permit.That's awesome.Great, let's keep going.Or you got good comments.Great.But I had one district,I have to call them several times.And again, this isdeveloped permit stage for,and this was just a month.This is crazy.It was like a $20 million home orsomething at the time.They actually lost the drawings.And I'm like, when didyou lose the drawings?Was this last time Ispoke to you and followed up?Or was it, no, no, no, itwas about a few months ago.Oh my goodness.I would have sent youbrand new drawings like that.I would have put them printedand curve them overto you in a heartbeat.Why couldn't you just tell me?But.That's a horror story right there.Recently I did aproject in a small townshipin a state that's not New Yorkthat I hadn't worked in before.I've worked in manymajor metropolitan areas,but small townships,there's all these funky rolesand they have their way of doing thingsand there's no use in fighting.So we got our plan set.Like I developed a Gantt chart.Like we were good to go.We were ready to submit.And I called the building department.I'm like, hey, whatemail address should I senddigital copies of our permit set to?And they were just like,no, we actually have to,we actually have to receive full hardcopies of everything.And I was like.It's a toiletry, yeah.You want, you want what?It's 2025.You want full paperhard copies of everything.And I like, what?It was shocking.Like I couldn't actually comprehend itbecause even since like 2013, 2014,it's been digital submission via PDF.And basically everymajor metropolitan areathat I've worked in.I've dealt with the paperthing every once in a while,but in like rural areas.Like I'm talking like middle of nowhere.This is like an hourand a half drive outsideof New York city.Like it's not, it's a small town,but it's not like it's boondocks.Right.Yeah, it was crazy to me.I had to hop in the carthat day and drive themwhere else we weregoing to be off schedule.Then I show up and it looks like,it looks like themanuscript draft libraryof like the Declaration of Independence.And I'm like, this is not organized.I'm going to give you these plans.I was joking around with the clerk.I was like, I'm goingto give you these plans.How can you guaranteeyou're not going to lose them?And she's like, we use apurple post-it note for it.And I was like,Oh, purple.Oh, of course that's your system.Purple post-it notes.Well, not, I totally, I totally,if it was pink, that's different, right?But purple, different story.Purple, purple, we'regoing to keep track of.We had a similar story.We had a district, same thing.They wanted all these brand new sets.They're like, do youknow the cost of this?We will go to Best Buy and we,or we'll order somethingoff online, off Amazon.We'll buy you a 42 inch monitorand we'll give you the digital files,because it's cheaper for us to do thatand to print these dumb drawingsthat are going to be totally differentthe next time that you want a revisionor you've got commentsbecause we're so fasttracking these anyways.So too funny.But wrapping up this day of horrorstories has been great.If you kind of had to wrapit up in a sentence or two,what would be some good adviceto kind of pass alongto the generation that,or whoever is listeningto the show right now?Yeah, I mean, I knowit's off-mentioned adviceand, but it rings true,is that over-communicate,over-communicate,over-communicate, over-communicate.Entering into a project where the,if you're building a restaurantwhere the kitchen designerhas not met the architectuntil you're already underwayon plans is a major mistake.Entering into aproject where the millwork,the case for the woodwork resource hasnot met the architectand the architect hasto include their designsin the plans, major mistake.Even though people mightfeel like it's a waste of time,and I've dealt with peoplelike this and that's fine,people might thinkthat it's a waste of timeto have an all-handsmeeting once every two weeksand then do smaller project meetingwith the core team once a week.People might think it's a waste of time,but you'd be surprisedhow many things come upon those calls that are like,oh, I wasn't thinking about that.If I had a, oh, I wasn'tthinking about that timeror a counter on my desk,it would be in the hundreds.And that's how you runa successful project.It's not just because wework in digital environmentsand we have plans andwe have tools to overlayarchitecturals withmechanicals, with electrical.Doesn't mean thatthings aren't gonna happenbecause we're building inthe physical environment,the built space, the built environment.So over communicate,don't be afraid to send emailson things as small as,hey, is this drain gonna bea two inch drain or a three inch drainbecause I need to makesure that my coffee guyhas enough room in his flex line.Small emails like thatare, it's not just to like,cover your butt, it's tomake sure that there iswidespreadcommunication over potentially,over simple issues thatcould become complicated.So save yourself the horror storiesand over communicate a little more.And I totally agree, communication 101,that's a podcast on its own that Iprobably should do toobecause yeah, it's soeasy to pick up the phone.And I know from the architect standpoint,sometimes they don't havethat hours to allocate it to it.But again, if youdon't pick up that phone,that's gonna be a five minute call.Well, what result of you not doing thatcould turn into hours of rework and adissatisfied client.So 100%.It's hours of rework and even worse,the cash register ringslater than anticipated.And that's a big problembecause it's not just dollars,it's time and you havedead rent and you have peopleand you have marketing plans that go awryand you have training and you hire staffand just keep, just, yeah.This was great.This was and thank you somuch for being part of thisour con this veryHalloween special show too.But where can the audience, nice.Where can the audience find you?meerkatcompanies.com is our main websitethat has pretty much allof our service offerings,active work, completedwork and ways to contact us.Connect with me onLinkedIn, just Zach Rappaport,follow us our LinkedInpage meerkatcompanies.And then we arestarting to build our Instagramfollowing a little bit.That is also meerkatcompanies as well.So we're pretty well alignedon the online presenceactually, which is nice.Very cool, absolutely.Yeah, thank you again.This was a blast and again, through,not gonna say mistakes, butjust through these storiesand challenges that we've all faced,I hope, again, viewers,listeners that pick it upand go, hey, I'm in that same scenarioand that they can hopefully not,basically just keepevolving and progressingin the right way andthat's where it's all about.But this was awesome.One last thing that I'll say too,and I know we wanna close out,but one last thing that I'll say toois that even though mistakes do happenand they can be reallystressful at the time,take it from me who'sdone 65 plus projects,you survive, theproject eventually finishes,it is a little stressful,but there's always a way out.So when you have thatmindset and you're calmer,you're able to problemsolve more efficiently.So don't let the panic get to you,stay calm and you will figure it outeven though there areproblems throughout.That's advice no one ever gave me,but it's advice that I give to peoplewhen things happen because things happen.We're humans and it'sconstruction and it's complicated,so keep a level aheadand you'll figure it out.I think that's just advicejust for day-to-day life.It is. Yeah.It is.Well, not beautiful, no.Let's close this up.So architects keepdesigning, contractors keep makingthose blueprints reality.We'll see on the next one.(upbeat music)

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