Us vs the GC: Why Construction Projects Turn Adversarial

[00:00:00] Testing 1, 2, 3 Is this even on? Alright, it's been way too long and I'm sorry. We've got so much to cover. Let's get into it. Welcome to What the RFI. I'm Matt Brennan and this is the podcast all about CA. Okay, so first off, it's been like six months since I last aired my episode.

[00:00:27] And hey, I apologize. Life took a different turn of events. Things have been changing. Things have been busy. I've been moving. The list goes on and it's been exciting. It's been lots and lots happening and we're going to get into that. And I just wanted to kind of bring you, you know, the audience, kind of back up to speed with that. Because I want a big thank you to all that basically sent the fan mail going, Hey, what's going up? I listened to the show. You know, where, you know, where you at, Matt? You know, you kind of disappeared for a little bit. What is going on?

[00:00:57] And you're right. I kind of did because like I said, one off, you know, my career kind of took a turn and everything. I went from the tech industry and now I'm back into the architectural industry where I originated from day one, where all these stories and these scenarios are real life stories. And I'm right back into it thick and thin doing CA. And I basically joined my previous firm that, you know, before I left into the tech and I came back and everything.

[00:01:25] They welcome with arms wide open. They're a firm out in British Columbia where they do, you know, a ton of institutional projects throughout the province. My personal favorite type of project to work on. I've been doing schools for about 15 years now. So it's been quite some time. I've seen the shape across the industry, you know, 21st learning inclusive washrooms have been a big hot topic over the last kind of five, six years.

[00:01:52] And also with just like designing and pressure points with ongoing cost rising and so on. So that's an episode on its own, but love it. So each day I can't keep up with writing all the content of things that I want to bring to the table. And with that and another kind of bit of craziness with life is I actually moved. We ended up buying a townhouse and loving it in that respect.

[00:02:19] And, you know, so we got a new studio, we got a new gig here. So trying to get this all set up and figure out. But it's yeah, it's been a little wild. And, you know, on that special note about moving, we're going to talk about occupancy and basically ready for takeover. So that's going to be an episode on its own because that's so much things to cover on that, which may even be a two part episode. We will see.

[00:02:44] And today, particularly, we're going to talk about us versus the general contractor, us versus the GC. And we'll get into that. But before we get into the show itself of today, I just wanted to kind of bring up and get you excited and give you some teasers here of some future shows in the works. OK, one, everyone talks about AI. We've talked about it here on the show as well. But I'm actually because I'm practicing every single day.

[00:03:13] I'm using a AI daily, right? ChatGPTS finest. And there's other ones we're going to dive into taking meeting notes. And how can we bring an AI meeting note taker in here? So really excited to share that because, again, it I save hours per day just because of a few tools that I'm doing. And I want to share it with you and bring it and bring it to your attention. Tenders and how do you manage tenders? What's the best way? What's a good way of tracking it? All these kind of things.

[00:03:41] And again, through that, I've done close three tenders in the last six months. So lots of experience, especially given the high demand with the way the industry is moving in that respect. As we kind of talked about with the move, request for takeover, substantial completion, go on all those terms. Got an episode on that. And what about phase occupancy?

[00:04:05] You know, how can we phase a project when, you know, we've got multiple different phases of it and basically when we're bringing our A.H.J.'s into the scenario. Lots, lots of content to talk about that and just so much more, right? Lots of episodes lined up, lots of guests lining up. So the break is over. The holiday is over. I'm back in the chair, the new chair, and I'm ready to bring this podcast to the next level.

[00:04:33] So appreciate all the support, the family you guys have been giving. Let's get into today's episode. So as I kind of said, us versus the GC. Okay. Well, first of all, where did this even come from? It was inspired by an old colleague and I got a note saying, you know, he reached out after listening to a few episodes and he had something to say. You know, something of interest to say about it. And it was, hey, Matt, a lot of your stories sound like the architects versus the general contractor. Right there.

[00:05:03] And, you know, I kind of took a step back and reflected and going, is it really about that? And like, I've done both ways. Right. And I thought, you know what? We could talk about a whole, we could talk about this on a whole episode. And here we are. Okay. And, and honestly, it was a fair comment. Right. Given the status of it. And if you work in CA long enough, or if it's your first year in that respect, it can certainly feel that way. Right. It could be your first project.

[00:05:33] It could be maybe your fifth project and so on. And, you know, through that it's, you know, the architect fighting the contractor. It's the contractor fighting with the consultant team, fighting with herself. Everyone's just really trying to protect themselves. Right. Given today's, you know, economics and world, the budget, the fees and so on. Everyone is document, documenting everything, you know, emails, emails, emails. Right.

[00:05:58] And, you know, what's, that's probably, you know, daily, you know, I think I'm getting about 100 emails per day. That's, that's a good day. Right. 200 is, is, you know, practical. Good luck taking vacation. Cause it sucks coming back. That's again, that's an episode on its own too. And at the end of the day, everyone's not trying to get burned. Absolutely. Hands down. So I want to bring some clarification to this. Right. And, and set the record straight here, because despite how it can sound like.

[00:06:28] It should never actually be us versus the GC. Construction naturally creates tension. And let's be honest for a second here. CA lives in a space between design, cost, schedule, liability, and the real world construction. I mean, it's here in what it is. And when all those pressures collide on a single project, that's when tension becomes what it is.

[00:06:57] So, and when we have these projects full of tension, what happens? Well, budget pressure, schedule pressure, manpower shortages. We're still starting to see that in the industry. It's kind of lightening up, but it's still a problem. Design coordination issue, AKA maybe possibly bad drawings. They should never been tendered out. Owner expectations. That can change things as well during that, that, that process. Trades pointing fingers. Consultants trying to protect the intent.

[00:07:27] And contractors trying to protect their margin, their budget, right? They have, they're trying to make a few dollars at the end of the day. They're trying to maintain that schedule. All these things. And of course, if you want to stress somebody out, first thing is, is touch their wallet. That's where things really change. So when all this happens is we're building up activities being constructed in real time. This creates a lot of friction, right? Maybe just me talking and all these stories coming to you right now, and you're already thinking of a job site,

[00:07:57] that's a project going in and it's already starting to build up the anxiety of you, right? And it's already giving you that tension. And maybe through today, we'll kind of figure out some ways to, you know, prevent that and keep going. And once we layer on today's modern construction, you know, the realities of that, we have like, again, we have got compressed schedules. So again, despite we talked about the delays, incomplete coordination at tender, right?

[00:08:22] That having a bad tender, as you've heard on the show before, just results in CA that we unfortunately have nothing to do with. Material delays. Yeah, that's still coming into effect. You know, we're seeing a lot. It's not as bad as it has been in over the last kind of four or five years, but it's still a thing. Escalating pricing. Well, yeah, that's an ongoing issue right now.

[00:08:48] Look where the world's at over the last two months with, you know, the war on the east there. We're getting a lot of tension from that. Gas prices have been going up. So again, these are things you cannot plan for on a project like a school, for example, that's being built out two years in advance. And when it's being tendered and when things change overnight, right? You just, you know, again, that's just adding that new layer of friction to it. And, you know, tariffs. Yeah, we still got those kicking around.

[00:09:17] They're still playing a role into things. Staffing shortages internally, even at your own firm. I think that's probably the most friction as well. There's just not enough people to kind of get into their inexperienced PMs on both sides, whether it's inexperienced staff members or again, the GC on the site is kind of his first rodeo. And the email changes that never end, right? How many emails do you get in each day? Right. It just sucks. And then suddenly every RFI that comes in feels like it's a legal battle.

[00:09:46] What is going on with this? Right. Every SI becomes a negotiation and every CCM proposed change becomes a battlefield with the pricing game. So, yes, sometimes the relationship starts drifting into this. How do I protect myself from the other side instead of how do we solve this together? And again, that's what today's episode is about. So the big misunderstanding with this. Okay.

[00:10:13] The reality is architects and contractors actually want a lot of the same outcomes. We really do. We want the project to move smoothly, move smoothly forward. It has to be a successful project. We want a happy owner. We want that repeat business as we've talked about. We want to reduce the daily chaos in that respect, fewer mistakes.

[00:10:35] And I hope as we're going through this and we're learning our mistakes that we're not going to make them again, that we're going to go back to those drawings and we're going to update our standards and just keep that going. We want fewer surprises. I hate coming in and find out there is something happening on site that, you know, is not matching up to the drawings or whatever the case is. It's just never a good day, especially if it's on a Friday and going to the weekend. This doesn't sit well with me.

[00:11:01] And, you know, we're all basically building towards, you know, completing this project on time on budget. Right. Especially again, being in schools, there's not a lot of room for error. It has to open in that September because there's kids coming to it and we've got to get it done. So very important factors to it. So the problem is we often approach the problem from a completely different perspective. And and the contractors asking, can we build can this be built efficiently? Who pays for this? Is this an extra?

[00:11:31] What is the schedule impact that we're going to start to see? Is it impacting the critical path? And then meanwhile, the architecture firms are asking, does this meet code? Does it meet the specs? Are we creating failure to any kind of future liability? Does this line with the original design intent? And are we actually compromising the original design intent? Again, you've heard me on the show say how I really dislike alternates and that stuff.

[00:12:00] We want to, you know, we've spent so much time designing. We want to keep. We want this to basically wrap up. We want this to finish up. And neither side is necessarily wrong. Right. We both have our different perspectives and views of it. And at the end of the day, they're just carrying a different amount of responsibilities. And I think we've got to in these moments, we've almost got to stop and reflect on these and really think about it. Okay.

[00:12:27] And when communication starts to break down, that's when the us versus them mentally starts to become that, that voice that, you know, that tone in our mind. And let's just stop. Let's nip it in the butt. It's like bitterness. Don't swish it on your mouth. Just spit it out and move on. And that's the same thing with this. And the reality of the dangerous part of CA is, you know, doing this for 25 years now.

[00:12:52] It's, you know, the most dangerous projects aren't necessarily allowed ones. It's the passive aggressive ones. Okay. What I mean by that is the ones where nobody trusts each other. Okay. Every email is just loaded to what it is. It's a story. It doesn't need to be that. Let's focus on what's important. RFIs become weapons, right? People reopen closed discussions repeatedly. Like if we return an RFI, it just keeps getting reopened.

[00:13:21] And it's even when the answer is correct, it is that answer. It's on this drawing or whatever. And it just becomes a nuisance with it. Contractors to fish for extras through clarification requests. You know, why are they issuing five RFIs? Why do I have so many RFIs? Some in past with some GCs, that's their goal is to trigger that extra, right? And then not everyone as we were getting into it. Consultants can become defensive, right? They can get annoyed with it. Why are there so many RFIs? I've already answered this. All these things just play into this.

[00:13:50] And everyone starts documenting against each other. Like I said, you start making your folders. You're starting to protect. You're starting to get those spidey senses that something's not right. And it's just not good. And this is when the projects really start to spiral into this. And again, the us versus them starts to resonate, right? And honestly, I think it comes from fear, right? It's fear of losing money. It's of making mistakes on the job. Litigation is a big thing.

[00:14:16] Scheduling failure, owner backlash, and just simply being blamed. You know, you want to do a good job. You want to finish it and so on. So when these things happen, when they get that taste, some people just stop collaborating, right? And they start positioning themselves into a defense mode. So what does a good GC relationship look like? And this is where let's pivot this conversation. We've kind of heard the negative through me in this.

[00:14:46] And let's. Let's stop and let's change it. And as we kind of go into it, as we've been talking, I bet you've already had a couple flashes in your mind going, oh, yeah, this job, this job. Oh, yeah, this this GC, this one individual. So pause that for a second. Pin it because I want to get into what we can what this could look like. So the important part, some of the best projects I've worked on have had great, incredible general contractors. Right.

[00:15:14] And the really good GCs will solve the problems early. Right. They'll actually look at it. They'll be proactive and they'll see it when they do that. Give them the compliments. Appreciate it. Tell them that you appreciate that they're bringing stuff to the table early on. Communicate early. Right. This is why we do monthly site meetings. And again, that'll be a whole episode on its own. Don't weaponize that they don't weaponize the RFIs or he's not intending to come after for an extra or anything.

[00:15:42] That's honestly, it's just a genuine clarification. And when they issue out these RFIs, rather than just saying there's a problem with the drawings and the story, bring a solution to it. We always try and encourage our contractors to do that. Bring a solution to the table so we can look at and we can all look at because they've already met with the trades and if we can go under less friction, much better. Right. Um, you know, I recently I had a job where the ceiling was an installed per specs. They actually manufactured it on site.

[00:16:12] It didn't match what the product that we specified rather than just saying, you know what? Rip it out. Right. We said, let's work together and find out a good solution to keep what has been built, but basically compromise. Okay. And with that, that's definitely just kind of another aspect of having that working relationship. Another, uh, quality of a great GC is just understanding the drawings, right?

[00:16:40] So many times you get these RFIs and it's because they've just, they haven't even looked at the drawings. Right. And that's unfortunate in that case. Right. And, and especially not even just the drawings, but like, you know, third party reports, like a geo report or, um, an alternate solution report, all these good things. The GC is on top of it, he's aware of it. And then that's going to make them project move so much smoother. The CA moves so much smoother. And of course, having a good understanding of construction.

[00:17:08] If these, if they're a bidder that, uh, bid on a school and they've never built their schools, you're gonna have a lot of troubles. Right. But if there are ones that are fluid with it, then again, that's just going to go a long way in respect to that. And in return, the consultant team, the design team, the architect, we should be responding quickly. Right. We should be organized. We should be on top of our logs. Uh, we should own our mistakes. Our, our drawings aren't going to have mistakes. And same thing with the contractor.

[00:17:38] They're going to make mistakes at site, but we need to own it. We just got to make it right. If it's fair and reasonable, the issue would have changed, then do it. Right. Don't fight it on that. Uh, issue clear direction. When you're, you're telling site to proceed under new direction, be really clear, be responsive in that stuff. Don't over complicate things. How many times we can go down in its own spiral about where an outlet is or something like that after the fact. And, and just understand the site realities. These are human. These are people on site as well.

[00:18:07] And if, um, you know, from our end, it's kind of a team effort in both aspects of that. Okay. And when you have both of these working in hand, this is where the magic really happens, right? Trust is there. And that's really cool. When both sides are treating the project like, um, like this, that things are moving forward and they start acting as a coordination team. Like I said, this is where the magic happens because the truth is the owner doesn't care

[00:18:37] whose fault it is. They just want the building done. End of story. And the reality of this modern CA, and I will say this is modern CA is harder than it used to be. Right. And kind of again, doing our, going back to the start of the episode and going to the challenge, you know, the challenges and everything is today projects are moving faster. Right. They really are. We ideally that's what we want.

[00:19:04] Um, teams are leaner as we kind of talked to earlier is maybe your staff is very thinned out, you know, lots of turnover, maybe newer, you know, uh, staffs coming and going students, you know, new green staff is there. Who knows? Right. It sometimes you just, you know, given you've got too many jobs in your office versus, um, which you can take on. So we're dealing with that lean aspect. Uh, coordination is tighter and timing to get these drawings out is a shorter window

[00:19:32] and therefore where do you sacrifice from the drawings? Is it the coordination details? All these things, they all plays a role and the documentation is a lot heavier. Doing schools, you know, 30, 40 years ago, um, these drawing sets were anywhere from 14, 15 pages. Now they're 160 pages. So lots more attention to detail, which is a good thing, but at the same time, it's very time consuming. Okay.

[00:20:00] And because, because of that, the tension naturally increases as we noted. And today, you know, architects, architect firms are juggling with the a hundred RFIs, the submittals, the CCNs, the changes, owners meetings, the permit issues, you name it. And keep in mind, often across multiple projects at once. And my, meanwhile, the GC is trying to keep these crews moving and navigating the labor

[00:20:26] shortages, procure, the procurement issues that come from this, uh, owners are demanding the impossible schedules. Sometimes all of these have a, have a effect and a play into it. So what I actually think is both sides is under more pressure than before through today's construction side of things. And what is exactly why collaboration matters more than before? It's because of these things, we need to be working as a team and a story, right? It really does go a long way.

[00:20:57] And then the part that nobody necessarily talks about is sometimes the architect is right, But hold on, hang on. There's always two sides of the story. Sometimes the contractor is right too. And sometimes both sides are partially wrong. Okay. Own it and things happen. You're, you're, you're going to make a mistake. Own it.

[00:21:24] No need to finger point, just get into it and look at it. Kind of where my role is again, I'm coming into a lot of these projects where the design has already been completed. It's been done and it's landed on my lap. So I wasn't even involved in the drawings in that respect. I'm just taking what was drawn, what was gone through permit, what was tendered. And now I'm kind of seeing it through construction. So if there is a detail that's missing or the details just completely blatant wrong,

[00:21:51] or there was a structural coordination that was missed, whatever the case is, I'm not sitting going, well, I didn't do the drawing. It's not my fault. No, no, it's right away. Okay. How do we fix this? Okay. Yeah. We got a beam. Okay. Let's see how we can make this work. Like I said, the ceiling, um, story earlier, rather than just saying, well, it's not, I didn't do it. It's not my problem. No, just got it right into it. Okay. Looked at what it is. How can we make this right? How can we do this without causing a lot of pain to everyone? And of course, how can we keep money in each other's pockets?

[00:22:19] So it really helps in that sense. So at the end of the day, the goal shouldn't be who wins. The goal should be what is the best path forward for this project? What is the best path forward? So kind of, as we kind of reflected on some of the jobs that we said earlier, start to think about right now, what can you do better?

[00:22:45] And as a self reflecting, how can you go to site the next time and move forward when an issue comes up, when the contractor starts to raise a tone, um, when you start feeling the pressure, what can you do? Right. What can you encourage your team, uh, with in that respect? Because once the billing is complete, nobody remembers who won an email chain. Maybe yourself, if you're fascinated on that, and that's not even healthy as an individual.

[00:23:14] But what absolutely does whatever one thing that everyone does remember is the delays. Right. That's one cost overruns, poor coordination, and definitely a toxic project environment. Don't be that person. Don't be that individual. Be the leader in this. And if you start seeing this immediately nip it in the butt, again, goes back to that bitterness comment. Don't swish it in your mouth. Just spit it out.

[00:23:44] Same thing here. You start to see this, be the better person at the end of the day. Don't make it about us versus them. Work with them, help them up as you're following. And then you're, your fellow teammate, lift them up in that respect. So in closing this episode here, and again, I might be a little rusty. It's been a while, but again, we're going to get back into this here. So no, this podcast is not about architects versus general contractors period. Absolutely not.

[00:24:12] That has never been the flavor for these type of episodes for this show. It's an honestly, it's about a collaboration. It's the reality of construction administration on a day to day. And yes, sometimes those realities involve conflicts. It is what it is, right? Every job is different. Every personality is different. But I think the best projects happen when the design team respects the construction.

[00:24:38] The contractors respect the design team's intent. And everyone remembers that they're actually on the same team. It goes a long way. And because at the end of the day, we're all trying to build something together here. And maybe the real enemy isn't the GC. It's not the architect. Maybe it's just poor communication, ego, and that broken collaboration.

[00:25:09] So let that kind of sink in. I'm very positive with kind of as you're taking this through and you're kind of, you know, going, reflecting into those moments that we, you know, that this job and through this. Like I said, my encouragement to you is kind of your next site meeting, go there with the intent of how can we run this job as a team? You know, maybe you've had, you know, differences with that general. What it is. It's all good, right? Pull them aside. Have an honest conversation with them. Make it right.

[00:25:38] And then just keep carrying on. So thanks for listening today, guys. Appreciate it. We've got a lot planned coming up. So be sure to hit that subscribe button, whether it's your Apple, YouTube, Spotify, take your pick. It's growing. It's very exciting. I'm sorry I took a, you know, good time off, but I needed it. And let's rock it. Let's bring us back. I'm excited for what's to come.

[00:26:01] And last, not but least until next time, architects keep designing and contractors keep making those plans a reality. We'll see on the next one.